I.M. Andreyev on the Moscow Patriarchate - Session 7
Jan 3, 2024 ·
1h 16m 31s
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"Our Struggle," Class 13 - "Is the Grace of God Present in the Soviet Church?" In this final section of the essay, the author asks and answers the question: "Is...
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"Our Struggle," Class 13 - "Is the Grace of God Present in the Soviet Church?"
In this final section of the essay, the author asks and answers the question: "Is the grace of God present in the Soviet Church?"
R. 1st Argument for validity of the MP - Recognition by the Patriarchates - pp. 49 - 50
1. Argument is that since Constantinople and the other Eastern Patriarchates recognize the MP, it is thereby canonical and grace-bearing.
2. Refutation:
a. The Ecumenical Patriarchate also recognized the "Living Church." Does that mean that they and not the Church under Patriarch Tikhon was the real Church at that time?
b. The Church leaders outside Russia do not comprehend the actual situation there. Their recognition of the MP is based on ignorance and therefore is not valid.
c. Even if they do know what is going and yet still recognized the Sergianist church, their recognition does not change anything. Truth is truth, and falsehood is falsehood. They do not have the power to change reality.
S. 2nd Argument for validity of the MP - The faith of the believing people can validate the sacraments of false hierarchs - pp. 50 - 53
1. Argument is that the laity are suffering and seek consolation in the false church. Therefore the sacraments of the false church are valid.
2. Refutation:
a. The "worthiness" of the laity is not the objective condition for the presence of sacramental grace.
b. The consolations received by the suffering laity in the MP are not spiritual, they are psychological and aesthetic.
T. 3rd Argument for the validity of the MP - The "simple" believers do not care about "abstract truths" and "politics," but only the good deeds demanded by the moral code of the Gospel - pp. 54 - 55
1. Argument: The theological and canonical questions at question are irrelevant to the "simple people," and therefore if the MP clergy preach a "simple Gospel" of piety and good works, this validates the sacraments of the MP.
2. Refutation:
a. Theological and canonical questions are not "abstract truths"; they are not mere academic exercises, but rather are precisely the real-life questions that must be answered to determine where to find the true Church.
b. Politics and religion cannot be separated. The politics of Communism is a religion. What one believes about Orthodoxy does determine one's politics, both ecclesiastical and civil.
c. It is precisely as "simple believers" that the true confessors deny grace in the MP, because they perceive this reality on the noetic level, not the level of the discursive intellect. It is precisely the overeducated professors who are defending the MP.
U. The loss of grace as a process over time, Conclusion - pp. 55 - 57
The author acknowledges that the loss of grace takes place usually as a process, over time. But even the realistic and terror-filled doubt that grace exists in the MP should keep us from approaching their "mysteries" We are filled with fear and terror concerning them, and this gives us a sober and prudent caution.
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In this final section of the essay, the author asks and answers the question: "Is the grace of God present in the Soviet Church?"
R. 1st Argument for validity of the MP - Recognition by the Patriarchates - pp. 49 - 50
1. Argument is that since Constantinople and the other Eastern Patriarchates recognize the MP, it is thereby canonical and grace-bearing.
2. Refutation:
a. The Ecumenical Patriarchate also recognized the "Living Church." Does that mean that they and not the Church under Patriarch Tikhon was the real Church at that time?
b. The Church leaders outside Russia do not comprehend the actual situation there. Their recognition of the MP is based on ignorance and therefore is not valid.
c. Even if they do know what is going and yet still recognized the Sergianist church, their recognition does not change anything. Truth is truth, and falsehood is falsehood. They do not have the power to change reality.
S. 2nd Argument for validity of the MP - The faith of the believing people can validate the sacraments of false hierarchs - pp. 50 - 53
1. Argument is that the laity are suffering and seek consolation in the false church. Therefore the sacraments of the false church are valid.
2. Refutation:
a. The "worthiness" of the laity is not the objective condition for the presence of sacramental grace.
b. The consolations received by the suffering laity in the MP are not spiritual, they are psychological and aesthetic.
T. 3rd Argument for the validity of the MP - The "simple" believers do not care about "abstract truths" and "politics," but only the good deeds demanded by the moral code of the Gospel - pp. 54 - 55
1. Argument: The theological and canonical questions at question are irrelevant to the "simple people," and therefore if the MP clergy preach a "simple Gospel" of piety and good works, this validates the sacraments of the MP.
2. Refutation:
a. Theological and canonical questions are not "abstract truths"; they are not mere academic exercises, but rather are precisely the real-life questions that must be answered to determine where to find the true Church.
b. Politics and religion cannot be separated. The politics of Communism is a religion. What one believes about Orthodoxy does determine one's politics, both ecclesiastical and civil.
c. It is precisely as "simple believers" that the true confessors deny grace in the MP, because they perceive this reality on the noetic level, not the level of the discursive intellect. It is precisely the overeducated professors who are defending the MP.
U. The loss of grace as a process over time, Conclusion - pp. 55 - 57
The author acknowledges that the loss of grace takes place usually as a process, over time. But even the realistic and terror-filled doubt that grace exists in the MP should keep us from approaching their "mysteries" We are filled with fear and terror concerning them, and this gives us a sober and prudent caution.
Comments
z
zamfir gheorghe
7 months ago
"Is the grace of God present in the Soviet Church?" The question is wrongly asked because it can only be answered by a saint. That is, a saved and deified man. Only he can say with certainty whether the Holy Spirit is pouring into the mysteries of the Church which claims to be the successor of the Orthodox Church of all times. Only a saint truly "SEES", others who are still on the path of holiness "DO NOT SEE" and can only say whether it is „POSSIBLE” for that church to be true or whether that church is ”IMPOSSIBLE” to be true. „R. 1st Argument for validity of the MP - Recognition by the Patriarchates - pp. 49 - 50” Recognition of a local church can only be done by another church that is possibly Orthodox. In the true church the church hierarchy is guided by the Holy Spirit to all truth (John, chapter XVI, verse 13). So the question shifts the dispute to another issue: were the other patriarchates still Orthodox at the time of the recognition of the MP? So refuting the argument is wrong. A church that does not "KNOW" is a church that is not guided by the Holy Spirit and has a hierarchy composed only of "BLIND" people who err unintentionally or willfully. „S. 2nd Argument for validity of the MP - The faith of the believing people can validate the sacraments of false hierarchs - pp. 50 - 53” The only somewhat correct answer is:
„a. The "worthiness" of the laity is not the objective condition for the presence of sacramental grace.” I say "sort of" because it doesn't make any argument but is just a conclusion that leaves the reader as ignorant as before. The correct answer is: in the true church it is the hierarchy which is holy and perfect and which guides the laity and monks to sanctification and salvation because they are the only mystically initiated into the steps of the priesthood and have already attained what they wish to give to others who are subject to them. The others, laity and monastics, can only be guided and perfected by the hierarchy and have no sacramental relevance. But when both are unperfected and unsanctified "the blind lead the blind" (Matthew, chapter XV, verse 14 and Luke, chapter VI, verse 39). „T. 3rd Argument for the validity of the MP - The "simple" believers do not care about "abstract truths" and "politics," but only the good deeds demanded by the moral code of the Gospel - pp. 54 - 55” I cannot answer here because there is not enough room for such a broad debate. „U. The loss of grace as a process over time, Conclusion - pp. 55 - 57” Whoever accepts this will have to prove it. If he wants to prove this he must say when and how much God regulated the length of time and conditions of gradual degradation. That is to say, what is the system by which it is ascertained what percentage of "grace" those who deviate still have. And how will that be? Will there be in the holy chalice, for example, only 63% of the body and blood of our Lord and God Jesus Christ? But what if God has standardized the period of time to be very long, and now the papists also have about 12.5% of grace left? This is where these intellectualist moderations and balanced methods lead. To blasphemy! In the Holy Gospels it is clearly stated that "the time of salvation is today" because no one knows if he will live tomorrow. And then: Jesus Christ, yesterday and today and forever, is the same.
And if one wants to bring in favor of this hypothesis as an argument the past when even great saints of the Church delayed for a period of time before declaring the deviationist faction devoid of the grace of the holy mysteries, then one must also prove these things: that even then and now information and people circulated with the same speed.
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