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Shepherd's Heart is a podcast for Christ-followers who refuse to look the other way. Hosted by Stewart and Alycia White, Shepherd's Heart tackles the hard conversations the modern church often...
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Shepherd's Heart is a podcast for Christ-followers who refuse to look the other way.
Hosted by Stewart and Alycia White, Shepherd's Heart tackles the hard conversations the modern church often avoids — church hurt and recovery, spiritual abuse, toxic leadership, pastor burnout, faith deconstruction, and the Christ-centered discernment every believer needs to navigate it all.
This isn't cynicism. This isn't an exit ramp from faith. Stewart and Alycia speak from deep love for the Bride of Christ and decades of ministry experience as worship leaders, Bible teachers, and Christ-followers who've walked through their own seasons of disillusionment and renewal. Every episode points back to Scripture, back to Jesus, and back to the heart of the Good Shepherd who leaves the 99 for the one.
If you've been wounded by the church but still love the Church, this podcast is for you.
New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss a conversation.
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Hosted by Stewart and Alycia White, Shepherd's Heart tackles the hard conversations the modern church often avoids — church hurt and recovery, spiritual abuse, toxic leadership, pastor burnout, faith deconstruction, and the Christ-centered discernment every believer needs to navigate it all.
This isn't cynicism. This isn't an exit ramp from faith. Stewart and Alycia speak from deep love for the Bride of Christ and decades of ministry experience as worship leaders, Bible teachers, and Christ-followers who've walked through their own seasons of disillusionment and renewal. Every episode points back to Scripture, back to Jesus, and back to the heart of the Good Shepherd who leaves the 99 for the one.
If you've been wounded by the church but still love the Church, this podcast is for you.
New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss a conversation.
Support the Podcast
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Transcribed
7 SEP 2026 · Did someone tell you to "just forgive them" after an individual, church, or a leader hurt you?
You tried. You said the words. And the weight never left.
Teasi Cannon, author of Counterfeit Forgiveness, taught, what she thought was, biblical forgiveness for years before she discovered the version most Christians learned is a therapeutic self-help model, not the forgiveness of scripture. In this episode of Shepherd's Heart she walks through how God actually forgives, why forgiveness in the Bible is tied to repentance and reconciliation, and how the counterfeit has quietly put the moral burden on victims of spiritual abuse while sheltering the people who hurt them. If you're in spiritual abuse recovery, dealing with church hurt, or trying to learn how to forgive someone who hurt you without pretending it didn't happen, this conversation is for you.
GET TEASI'S BOOK:
Counterfeit Forgiveness: https://amzn.to/3VeuJ1t
HEALING COMMUNITY:
Join: https://www.skool.com/shepherds-heart-ministries-6528/about
We cover the paperclip-and-strings model Teasi used to teach, the podcast that made her ask "what if I've been wrong all these years," what therapeutic forgiveness is and why sincere believers embrace it, whether Jesus forgave everyone from the cross, how to recognize real repentance, what to do when repentance never comes, and what you actually lose when you trade the counterfeit for the real thing.
You are not disobeying God when you can't forgive someone who hasn't repented. That burden was never yours to carry.
We love the Church. That's exactly why we take this seriously. Getting forgiveness wrong hasn't just wounded the people in our pews; Teasi makes the case that it's a contributing factor to cover-up culture in the church today. The biblical model is better news for everyone, the wounded and the offender both.
Teasi's book, Counterfeit Forgiveness, is on Amazon and wherever books are sold.
https://amzn.to/3VeuJ1t
Watch for the counterfeit listing with the dark cover; buy the real one. Find Teasi on the True Comfort Podcast, Instagram, and YouTube.
SHEPHERD'S HEART HEALING COMMUNITY
Our first month begins October 6 with Teasi as author in residence, a study through Counterfeit Forgiveness, and live Q&As every Tuesday at 7pm Central. Founding rate $47/month, grandfathered for the life of your membership. Details and sign-up: https://www.skool.com/shepherds-heart-ministries-6528/about
SCRIPTURES REFERENCED
Ephesians 4:32 | Colossians 3:13 | 1 John 1:9 | Luke 23:34 | Luke 6:28 | Matthew 18:6 | Matthew 18:15-17 | Luke 17:3-4 | 2 Timothy 3:1-5 | Isaiah 42:3 | 1 Samuel 15 | Revelation 3:14-18 | Ephesians 5:11-13 | Luke 14:26 | Luke 15 | Acts 2:36-38 | 1 Corinthians 5:5 | Romans 1:28
CHAPTERS
0:00 Is the Forgiveness You Were Taught Counterfeit? (Teasi Cannon Returns)
2:25 The Paperclip Model of Forgiveness She Taught for Years
5:04 "What If I've Been Wrong All These Years?"
8:21 Shepherd's Heart Healing Community (Book Study Starts October 6)
10:37 What Is Therapeutic Forgiveness? Why Sincere Christians Fall for It
15:39 How Do You Know You've Forgiven? Feelings Are a Moving Goalpost
22:08 Ephesians 4:32: How God Actually Forgives (Repentance, Then Reconciliation)
26:12 Did Jesus Forgive Everyone From the Cross? (Luke 23:34)
31:21 Therapeutic Forgiveness Puts the Moral Burden on the Victim
35:19 "For the First Time in My Life, I Can Believe God Is Good"
39:10 Counterfeit Forgiveness Fails the Offender Too: "That's Abandonment"
44:06 "It's Not Our Place to Judge": Church Discipline and Cover-Up Culture
45:34 What If Repentance Never Comes? (Dead, Dangerous, or Unrepentant)
49:02 Matthew 18 and 2 Timothy 3: Are You Commanded to Confront an Abuser?
50:57 What Real Repentance Looks Like (Fruit, Not Just "I'm Sorry")
54:16 Forgive From Your Heart, Not in Your Heart: "I'm Willing, I'm Not There Yet"
57:41 Red Flag: When Someone Rushes Your Forgiveness
1:03:56 When You've Repented and Forgiveness Is Withheld From You
1:07:04 What You Lose When You Trade the Counterfeit for the Real Thing
1:12:02 Matthew 18 and Luke 17:3-4: Repentance Is the Condition
If this episode put words to something you've been carrying, share it with one person who needs it. About 96% of the people watching aren't subscribed yet; subscribing is the simplest way to help these conversations reach the people who are quietly wondering if something is wrong in their church.
Have a story or a question? Email us at info@shepherdsheartministries.org.
Shepherd's Heart is hosted by Stewart and Alycia White, a married couple with 20 years in ministry, and releases new conversations on church hurt, spiritual abuse recovery, and biblical discernment. The audio version is available on Spreaker and wherever you listen to podcasts.
#SpiritualAbuse #ChurchHurt #BiblicalForgiveness #CounterfeitForgiveness #Repentance Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
19 AUG 2026 · Stuck in an unhealthy church and not sure what to do next? When you're facing spiritual abuse and toxic church leadership, when sin keeps getting covered instead of confessed, you really only have four options. Comply. Conform. Confront. Or cut ties.
In this episode of Shepherd's Heart, Stewart and Alycia White walk through all four biblically, so you can identify spiritual abuse for what it is and discern which door God is actually asking you to walk through right now. Every one of the four costs you something. None of them should be driven by fear, and none of them should be driven by anger either.
We look at what compliance looks like right before it quietly turns into participation. We look at how good people conform to a toxic system without ever meaning to. And we look at what biblical confrontation actually requires before you ever get to the question of leaving a toxic church.
Hear this clearly: Walking away from an abusive church is not walking away from Jesus. Sometimes it's the most faithful step toward Him you can take.
This isn't cynicism, and it isn't an exit ramp from faith. We love the Bride of Christ. That's exactly why we take it this seriously.
SCRIPTURES REFERENCED
Acts 5:29 | Ephesians 5:11 | Romans 12:2 | Galatians 2:11-13 | Matthew 18:15-17 | 1 Timothy 5:19-20 | 1 Peter 3:17 | Romans 12:18 | Romans 16:17 | 1 Corinthians 5 | 2 Corinthians 7 | 2 Timothy 3 | James 1:5 | Ezekiel 34 | John 10
CHAPTERS
00:00 Spiritual Abuse in the Church: The Only Four Options You Have
00:30 How to Identify Spiritual Abuse When Something Just Isn't Right
01:16 Church Hurt and Biblical Discernment: Why We Do This Show
01:58 Comply, Conform, Confront, or Cut Ties
02:20 Option 1: Comply (Going Along Without Agreeing)
03:43 When Compliance Becomes Participation in Sin | Acts 5:29
04:49 Option 2: Conform (When You Adopt the Dysfunction)
06:34 Stop Confusing Talent With Anointing
08:20 Are You Defending What Once Broke Your Heart? | Romans 12:2
08:53 Option 3: Confront (Naming Sin in Church Leadership)
10:07 Matthew 18:15-17: The Biblical Process for Confronting Sin
11:23 Important Exception: Abuse, Assault, and Reporting It
11:55 How "Two or Three Witnesses" Gets Weaponized | 1 Timothy 5
14:28 Confrontation Is Right Even When It Goes Badly
18:42 Option 4: Cut Ties (When Leaving a Toxic Church Is Biblical)
20:07 Is Leaving a Church Unbiblical? Matthew 18:17 Says No
24:43 Walking Away From an Abusive Church Is Not Walking Away From Jesus
26:28 Four Questions to Know Which Option God Is Asking of You
31:57 These Aren't Four Personality Types, They're Four Doors
34:24 Share This With Someone Sitting in That Hard Place
If this episode helped you, share it with somebody sitting in that hard place right now. You never know what one conversation can do.
Data tells us that 96% of the people watching Shepherd's Heart haven't subscribed yet. If this is your kind of conversation, subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss the next one.
Questions, or something you're walking through? Email us at
info@shepherdsheartministries.org
Shepherd's Heart is a podcast for Christ-followers who refuse to look the other way. Hosted by Stewart and Alycia White. New episodes every two weeks.
#SpiritualAbuse #ChurchHurt #ToxicChurch #BiblicalDiscernment #ShepherdsHeart Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
6 AUG 2026 · You were the one who showed up early and stayed late, and now you can't sit through a worship set without your chest tightening. That is what spiritual abuse does. In this episode of Shepherd's Heart, Stewart and Alycia White sit down with pastor and author Remy Diederich, who wrote "Broken Trust," for an honest conversation about spiritual abuse, church hurt, toxic church leadership, and what healing actually looks like on the other side.
Book: "Broken Trust: A Practical Guide to Identify and Recover from Toxic Faith, Toxic Church, and Spiritual Abuse": https://amzn.to/4xirow5
Remy was the worship leader at a church that spiritually abused him. When he walked out, he lost every friend he had. For five years he couldn't pray, couldn't read his Bible, and couldn't listen to worship music at all. Then he did the last thing anyone expected. He planted a church and pastored it for eighteen years, and he spent more than two decades sitting with people in an addiction treatment center learning how broken trust actually gets rebuilt.
In this conversation Remy walks through the full spectrum of unhealthy faith communities, from simple insensitivity to toxic performance-based teaching to outright spiritual abuse to mind control, and he explains how to identify spiritual abuse when your church keeps fluctuating between the two. He unpacks the crazy-making moment where you walk into a leader's office with a legitimate concern and walk out apologizing. He explains the equity investment, the reason you cannot just leave a church you have poured your money and your friendships and your family into. He names why the Bible and prayer and worship music become triggers rather than comfort, and why that is not your fault. And he draws the clearest line we have heard on forgiveness and trust being two completely separate things.
If you've experienced church hurt, spiritual abuse, toxic church leadership, or deep trauma inside a faith community, this conversation is for you. We talk honestly about healing, boundaries, discernment, pastoral care, religious trauma, and the long road of recovery after spiritual harm. We also explore how the gospel, Jesus, and the Bible speak into betrayal, grief, damaged relationships, and rebuilding faith after a church wounds you. Whether you are an abuse survivor, a church leader, a pastor, or someone wrestling with whether you can leave a church and still follow God, this episode offers clarity and hope.
Remy also gives something we rarely hear anyone give: green flags. Not just the red ones. How to vet a church before you hand over your trust again, what to read on a church website before you ever walk in the door, and what healthy church leadership actually looks like from the inside.
And if you're the person sitting there with your arms crossed, about to walk away from the church and from God at the same time, stay through the end.
Subscribe so you don't miss that conversation.
FIND REMY DIEDERICH
Website: https://www.readingremy.com
Remy has over 300 articles on his site and a YouTube channel with a full section on spiritual abuse.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@FRemyD
Book: "Broken Trust: A Practical Guide to Identify and Recover from Toxic Faith, Toxic Church, and Spiritual Abuse": https://amzn.to/4xirow5
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Why Didn't You Just Leave? | Spiritual Abuse in Their Own Words
01:34 He Lost Every Friend, Then Planted a Church | Meet Remy Diederich
04:49 Five Years Without Prayer or the Bible
07:01 The Day God Flipped a Switch | Finding Abraham
09:40 The Spiritual Abuse Spectrum | Insensitivity to Mind Control
12:48 The Elder Who Said Nothing | Early Signs of a Toxic Church
16:06 The Meeting That Flips | You Walk In With a Grievance and Leave Apologizing
18:16 Why You Can't Just Leave | The Equity Investment Explained
21:33 Confront It or Leave | Remy's Bottom Line
24:10 When the Bible, Prayer, and Worship Become Triggers
25:45 I Was the Worship Leader and I Couldn't Listen to Worship Music
28:26 If You Leave This Church, Bad Things Will Happen | A Major Red Flag
30:30 Forgiveness and Trust Are Two Separate Things
33:46 The Bridge the Offender Has to Build | Rebuilding Broken Trust
35:49 How to Vet a Church Before You Trust It | Green Flags, Not Just Red
39:33 What He Did Differently When He Planted a Church
42:48 To the Person Who Is About to Walk Away From God
46:34 Where to Find Remy Diederich and Broken Trust
CONNECT WITH SHEPHERD'S HEART
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ShepherdsHeartShow
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shepherdsheartministries/
If this episode named something you've been carrying alone, you are not alone. Leave a comment below and we will pray for you and walk through it with you.
#SpiritualAbuse #ChurchHurt #ToxicChurch #BrokenTrust #ShepherdsHeart Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
21 JUL 2026 · You left a church because of spiritual abuse, but the people you love stayed. Teasi Cannon joins Shepherd's Heart to talk about church hurt, broken friendships, and how to know who is still safe.
Leaving an unhealthy church rarely ends the pain. Your friends stay, the leaders keep going, and somehow you become the difficult one. In this episode, Teasi shares her own story of spiritual abuse and walks through the hardest part of healing from church hurt: navigating the relationships with people who stayed behind. If you're grieving friendships, questioning who you can trust, or wondering how to love people still inside a toxic church, this conversation is for you.
CONNECT WITH TEASI CANNON
Website: https://www.teasicannon.com
YouTube (True Comfort Podcast): https://www.youtube.com/@teasicannon9660
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teasicannon
True Comfort on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/true-comfort/id1822183312
True Comfort on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0mmBVgIBS6XbD5xggsnFCA
beEmboldened (spiritual abuse recovery nonprofit): https://www.beemboldened.com
What we cover in this episode:
Why survivors of spiritual abuse wonder if they can ever trust themselves again
The moment you're out and no one comes for you
Why the wounded person gets the scrutiny while leaders get the benefit of the doubt
"Bleeding sheep don't bleed pretty" and how a friend can actually help someone who isn't healing gracefully
Why good people stay in unhealthy churches, and how to have compassion without pretending
Why a staying friend's presence can feel like rejection and betrayal
Not everyone who stays is unsafe, but not everybody who stays is safe: how to discern which friendships still have room for your heart
Red flags that a friendship has become unsafe, including defending the leader, reporting back, and pressure to reconcile quickly
Biblical boundaries with people still inside the church
The hope on the other side: it wasn't Jesus, it was a misrepresentation of Him
Teasi will be back on Shepherd's Heart when her new book on forgiveness releases. Subscribe so you don't miss that conversation.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 I Wished I Had Bruises | The Invisible Wound of Spiritual Abuse
01:19 Welcome to Shepherd's Heart with Teasi Cannon
01:44 Meet Teasi Cannon: Author, Speaker, beEmboldened Board Member
02:44 Wounded in Jesus's Name: Why Church Hurt Matters
03:14 How Did I Become the Difficult One?
04:12 Shunned Overnight: When No One Comes for You
05:04 Why Spiritual Abuse Makes You Doubt Yourself
07:19 Get Educated: The First Step After Church Hurt
09:47 Hyper-Scrutiny and the Pressure to Leave Perfectly
10:13 Bleeding Sheep Don't Bleed Pretty
11:33 How Friends Can Actually Help a Hurting Person
13:37 Is Telling Your Story Gossip? Reclaiming the Word
15:38 Why I Didn't Confront the People Who Hurt Me
16:10 Red Flag Sermons: How the Pulpit Manages the Narrative
17:35 The Neuroscience of an Invisible Wound
18:34 Why Good People Stay in Unhealthy Churches
20:19 When the Friends Who Stayed Also Stayed Too Long
21:19 We Lost Everything: 23 Years and Gone
23:14 When Their Staying Feels Like Betrayal
25:05 You're Worshiping Where I Was Wounded
26:03 Thrown Off the Ship: Grieving the Friendship
27:31 Can These Friendships Survive Spiritual Abuse?
28:32 Why Do I Want Them to See the Truth?
32:05 Do I Keep Hoping or Release Them?
33:26 Wolves and the Naivety That Lets Them In
34:28 Red Light, Yellow Light, Green Light Friendships
35:35 What a Safe Friend Sounds Like
36:24 The Yellow Zone: Choosing to Be Vulnerable Again
38:32 When Someone Presses You for More Information
40:12 Setting a Loving Boundary in a Hard Conversation
41:06 Don't Cut the Baby in Half: Two Sides to Every Story
42:15 Total Image Repair and DARVO from Leadership
43:33 What Biblical Boundaries Really Are
45:42 Boundaries Please the Lord, Not People
47:13 We Have Completely Misunderstood Forgiveness
47:58 Just Forgive Is Not That Simple: The Moral Debt
49:22 Forgiving God vs. Forgiving People
51:11 The Fruits of Genuine Repentance
53:17 Forgiveness, Trust, and Restored Access
56:05 What Saying I Forgive You Actually Means
57:22 The Beauty That Only Repentance Can Bring
59:08 A Teaser for the Counterfeit Forgiveness Deep Dive
59:34 Grief That Changes You Rather Than Defines You
61:27 Finding Security in Christ, Not the Church
63:39 We Can't Force Reconciliation or Repair
65:19 A Litmus Test for Our Own Hearts
67:00 Rejoicing With True Repentance
67:30 Transcendent Hope in the Middle of Real Pain
70:24 It Wasn't Jesus: The Hope on the Other Side
72:12 When the Church Isn't the One Who Shows Compassion
73:32 Ezekiel 34: The Shepherd Who Goes After the One
74:18 About the Book: Counterfeit Forgiveness
76:31 Where to Find Teasi and Her True Comfort Podcast
#churchhurt #spiritualabuse #LeavingAChurch #TeasiCannon #ShepherdsHeart Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
29 JUN 2026 · ➟ ➟ Narcissism in the church is one of the hardest things to name, especially when the pastor looks godly on Sunday and something still feels deeply wrong. In this episode of Shepherd's Heart, Stewart and Alycia White sit down with therapist and author Chuck DeGroat, who wrote "When Narcissism Comes to Church," for an honest conversation about spiritual abuse, church hurt, and what real healing actually looks like.
Chuck has spent more than twenty years doing psychological assessments of pastors and leaders. He explains why narcissism is a spectrum and not just a label. He shows how to tell the difference between a leader having a bad day and a genuine pattern of harm, and why rushing to call someone a "narcissist" is rarely the most helpful place to start. He also shares the warning a seminary professor once gave him that changed the course of his life and his marriage.
This is a conversation for anyone who has carried church hurt they could never fully explain, or quietly wondered whether their leader is actually narcissistic. There is a path toward healing, and it starts in a different place than most people expect.
What we cover in this episode:
➟ Why a "safe shepherd" is the real mark of healthy leadership
➟ The difference between abuse and the trauma that lingers long after it
➟ Why healing is "not microwavable" and what genuine change actually requires
➟ How forgiveness and justice are not the same thing
➟ What almost every narcissistic leader has buried in their own story
➟ How to discern real harm from a one-off mistake
"I'm never working with a narcissist. I'm working with someone who bears the image of God." - Chuck DeGroat
CHAPTERS
00:00 Personal growth and self-discovery
05:57 Using Milan Clinical Inventory
06:59 Discussing narcissistic personality traits
10:59 Examining Saul's leadership flaws
14:21 Narcissism and self-protection in therapy
17:40 Understanding vulnerability and self-protection
21:53 Assessing pastors' future challenges
24:37 Focusing on impact over labels
28:39 Discussing psychological diagnoses
33:44 Starting Point for Healing Trauma
34:23 Creating a safe space for healing
39:15 Recognizing signs of a panic attack
40:44 Importance of addressing physical needs
45:16 Shifting to a more grounded life
48:00 Seeking justice and healing
52:01 Reflecting on grace and forgiveness
54:31 Contact and Social Media Info
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Chuck DeGroat is a therapist, professor, and author of "When Narcissism Comes to Church" and "Healing What's Within." He co-founded the Soul Care Collaborative and teaches at Western Theological Seminary.
Website: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/
Soul Care Collaborative: https://www.soulcarecollaborative.com/
His books:
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse: https://amzn.to/4oV9mNr
Healing What’s Within: Coming Home to Yourself--and to God--When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering: https://amzn.to/4y0mXaI
More Books: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/books
If this conversation helped you, please like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs it. Hit the bell so you never miss a new episode on faith, healing, and discernment.
CONNECT WITH SHEPHERD'S HEART
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ShepherdsHeartShow
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shepherdsheartministries/
#ChurchHurt #SpiritualAbuse #Narcissism #ShepherdsHeart
Keywords: narcissism in the church, narcissistic pastor, spiritual abuse, church hurt, Chuck DeGroat, When Narcissism Comes to Church, healing from church hurt, narcissistic personality disorder, toxic church leadership, spiritual abuse recovery, biblical discernment Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
18 MAY 2026 · Should I leave my church? If you're wrestling with church hurt, spiritual abuse, or unhealthy leadership, this conversation is for you.
In this episode of Shepherd's Heart, Stewart and Alycia White walk through 7 biblical questions to help you discern whether to stay, leave, or let God do deeper work in your own heart first. With humility and gospel-centered clarity, we speak to wounded believers and thoughtful leaders alike — pointing you back to Jesus, the Good Shepherd, who loves His church more than we ever could.
⏱ CHAPTERS
00:00 - Introduction: Should I Leave My Church? The Hard Question
01:15 - The Three Outcomes When Questioning Your Church
03:20 - When Abuse Is Present: When You Must Leave Immediately
04:14 - Question 1: Is the Gospel Truly Being Preached?
10:24 - Action Step: How to Directly Ask Your Pastor About the Gospel
14:19 - Question 2: Is Scripture the Authority or Just an Accessory?
17:57 - Red Flags: Ignoring and Misusing Scripture in the Church
22:42 - Question 3: Is Unrepentant Sin Confronted or Ignored in Your Church?
31:49 - Question 4: Are Your Leaders Qualified and Accountable?
43:15 - Question 5: Is Your Soul Being Fed or Starved at Church?
47:59 - Question 6: Have You Exhausted the Biblical Path of Appeal?
53:05 - Question 7: Are You Leaving Toward Something?
56:01 - Bonus Question: Why Do I Want to Leave or Stay?
58:58 - Jesus Addresses Tolerance in the Church
1:00:36 - Final Thoughts
📖 IN THIS EPISODE
- 7 honest, biblically-sound questions to prayerfully evaluate your church and your own heart
- Red flags in leadership: gospel clarity, Scripture's centrality, how sin is (or isn't) addressed
- How to distinguish conviction from condemnation, consumerism from discipleship, comfort from real spiritual growth
- The dangers of pastoral neglect, unaccountable leadership, and wolves in sheep's clothing
- What to do when facing abuse — and why the Bible demands immediate action for safety and justice
- Encouragement for whether you stay, leave, or find God working first in you
✝️ KEY SCRIPTURES
1 Timothy 3 & 1 Peter 5 — the character and accountability of biblical shepherds
Galatians 1 — the cost of losing the true gospel
Matthew 18 & 1 Corinthians 5 — Christ's commands for confronting sin with care
💬 A GENTLE REMINDER
This podcast is a place for honest conversation and gospel-centered healing — not a substitute for local church shepherding, professional counseling, or immediate help if you're in danger. If you're facing abuse or unsafe leadership, please reach out to trustworthy local authorities or a Christ-centered counselor right away.
If you're hurting, you are not alone. Your story matters. Your pain is seen by Christ, and there is real hope for healing and restoration.
If you need help and someone to talk to about your situation, we recommend reaching out to BeEmbolded:
- beEmboldened Ministries website — https://www.beemboldened.com/
- beEmboldened YouTube channel — https://www.youtube.com/@beEmboldened
- Contact beEmboldened: https://www.beemboldened.com/contact
- Workshops for churches, survivor groups, and more are available— https://www.beemboldened.com/programs
🙏 If this conversation served you, would you subscribe and share it with someone who needs gospel-centered encouragement? Drop a comment with your questions, experiences, or prayer requests. We read them, and we're here to listen.
#ShepherdsHeart #churchhurt #spiritualabuse #ShouldILeaveMyChurch #christianpodcast #biblicaldiscernment #gospelhealing #ToxicChurchLeadership Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
4 MAY 2026 · Are you wrestling with church hurt, spiritual abuse, or disappointment in pastoral care and church leadership? In this gospel-centered episode of Shepherd’s Heart, Stewart and Alycia White gently but boldly unpack the crucial differences between a biblical church and a church as business. We explore how unhealthy church structures, CEO pastors, and corporate church models can lead to spiritual trauma, abuse of power, and a crisis of accountability, leaving wounded believers searching for healing, restoration, and trustworthy discipleship.
Learn how to recognize seven clear signs your church may be operating as a business rather than following Christ’s call to gospel-centered care and authentic biblical counseling. We discuss red flags such as NDAs (non-disclosure agreements), church discipline handled as HR, treating members as customers, mega church dynamics, partiality toward influential members, misuse of church discipline, avoidance of church crisis conversations, and prioritizing brand over people.
You’ll gain insight into real biblical discernment; how to spot unhealthy church organizations, navigate church discipline, seek wise accountability, and evaluate your own healing journey. Whether you’ve experienced toxic church leadership, spiritual neglect, or are a leader seeking a healthy church model, Stewart and Alycia point you to the hope of Christ, the comfort of Scripture, and practical next steps for your healing and restoration.
If you need resources or support, we highly recommend reaching out to BeEmboldened:
- BeEmboldened Ministries website — https://www.beemboldened.com/
- BeEmboldened YouTube channel — https://www.youtube.com/@beEmboldened
- Contact beEmboldened: https://www.beemboldened.com/contact
- Workshops for churches, survivor groups, and more are available— https://www.beemboldened.com/programs
Episode Summary:
- Seven warning signs that point to a business-minded church structure and how these relate to spiritual abuse, trauma, and neglect.
- How CEO pastors, mega church growth, and legal tools like NDAs signal a shift from gospel-centered discipleship to corporate priorities.
- Why biblical counseling, scriptural accountability, and honest pastoral care must anchor every healthy church.
- How to recognize and respond wisely to partiality, power imbalances, and crisis management driven by business interests rather than love for Christ.
- Steps for your healing journey: approaching church leadership with grace, processing hurt through a biblical lens, and discerning when it may be time to seek restoration or a new church community.
The essential marks of a truly healthy, biblically faithful church.
Key Scripture:
John 10 highlights Jesus as the Good Shepherd who cares for, restores, and protects His flock, contrasting godly pastoral leadership with the dangers of false shepherds and business-focused church organizations.
Care and Encouragement:
If you are navigating spiritual trauma, abuse of power, or crisis in your church, know you are not alone. Shepherd’s Heart is not a substitute for local pastoral care, Biblical counseling, or professional counseling where necessary, but comes alongside you on your healing journey with truth and compassion.
Final Encouragement & Call to Action:
If this episode helps you discern, heal, or grow, please subscribe, share, and comment with your questions or experiences. Stewart and Alycia take every story seriously—it’s our honor to pray for you.
Reach out below if you would like support, have suggestions for future topics, or need help taking your next step toward restoration.
You are seen, loved, and cared for by the Good Shepherd. There is hope after church hurt—and real healing can begin.
TIMSTAMPS:
0:00 - Why Jesus Flipped Tables (And Where He Did It)
0:42 - We Love the Church! Here's Why This Conversation Matters
5:07 - Sign #1: The Pastor Acts More Like a CEO Than a Shepherd
11:35 - Sign #2: Members Are Treated Like Customers or Stockholders
18:23 - Sign #3: The Service Points to the Church Instead of Christ
25:50 - Sign #4: Missions Become a Brand-Building Sizzle Reel
29:06 - Sign #5: Crisis Response Looks Like Corporate PR, Not Pastoral Care
38:54 - Sign #6: The Speed of Response Reveals the Heart
47:14 - Sign #7: NDAs and Legal Silencing in the Church
50:29 - What To Do If You're Seeing These Red Flags
52:45 - Sign #8 (BONUS!): When All Counseling Gets Outsourced
53:46 - Closing Thoughts and Prayer Request Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
20 APR 2026 · If you’ve experienced church hurt, spiritual abuse, toxic church leadership, or deep trauma inside a faith community, this conversation is for you. In this episode, we talk honestly about healing, restoration, boundaries, pastoral care, church discipline, and the painful reality of abuse in church culture. We also explore how the gospel, Jesus, and the Bible speak into grief, loss, betrayal, damaged relationships, mental health struggles, and the long road of recovery after spiritual harm. Whether you are an abuse survivor, a church leader, a pastor, or someone wrestling with faith, spirituality, and what biblical leadership should actually look like, this episode offers clarity, discernment, and hope.
Naomi Wright of beEmboldened shares her story of surviving spiritual abuse and cult recovery, along with practical wisdom for recognizing unhealthy power dynamics, responding to the covering up of abuse, and pursuing real reconciliation where possible. This is a Christ-centered conversation about faith, healing, accountability, discipleship, and finding hope in Christ after church pain.
Resources & Contact Information:
- beEmboldened Ministries website — https://www.beemboldened.com/
- beEmboldened YouTube channel — https://www.youtube.com/@beEmboldened
- Contact beEmboldened: https://www.beemboldened.com/contact
- Workshops for churches, survivor groups, and more are available— https://www.beemboldened.com/programs
- Recommended interview for more of Naomi’s story: Sean McDowell & Naomi Wright on YouTube - https://youtu.be/YWl5wvvlo4E?si=L-hxe4eGh_U4mdE_
In this episode:
- Learn the difference between strong, biblical leadership and abusive leadership, and how to recognize red flags in church or ministry relationships.
- Understand how spiritual abuse can occur in both extreme settings (e.g., cults) and mainstream churches, and how subtler forms are often overlooked or explained away.
- Get a clear, working definition of spiritual abuse, why it flourishes in certain church cultures, and how leaders and systems unintentionally enable it through silencing, neglect, or misplaced loyalty.
- Explore the effects of trauma, including why survivors struggle to find language or speak up, and how church responses can either deepen wounds or foster true restoration.
- Receive practical encouragement: steps for those hurt by spiritual leaders, ways healthy churches can protect and respond, and counsel for church members struggling to understand and support those wounded.
- Hear pastoral advice for discerning healthy versus toxic church environments, and what real biblical accountability should look like among God’s people.
Scripture Foundation:
Ezekiel 34 anchors our conversation. God’s heart is clear—He sees when shepherds harm rather than protect His flock, and He Himself steps in as the Good Shepherd to rescue, heal, and restore. Jesus loves His sheep, calls out false shepherds, and promises justice along with compassionate care for the wounded.
We know that for many, church trauma and spiritual abuse bring pain, confusion, and sometimes despair. If you’re hurting, please know you are not alone and that Christ is near to the brokenhearted. Gospel-centered healing is possible, and trustworthy help can be found.
This podcast is not a substitute for local church shepherding or professional counseling. If your situation is unsafe or urgent, please seek immediate help in your area.
We hope you’ll find wise, gracious guidance, whether you’re a survivor hoping for a path forward or a church leader longing to shepherd Christ’s flock more faithfully.
If this conversation helps you, please subscribe and share with others who may need it.
We welcome your questions and stories!
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Confusion about religious upbringing
06:47 Feeling a Protective Presence
15:18 Recognizing spiritual abuse dynamics
20:37 Recognizing motives in leadership
21:51 Discussing Bea Bolden's mission and audience
30:56 Teaching accountability and limiting power
32:55 Understanding and discussing spiritual abuse
41:08 Encouraging outside support for churches
45:56 Handling leadership crises
49:21 Guidance for the outer circle
55:33 Importance of following up
01:02:26 Focus on genuine repentance and faith
01:07:11 Understanding victim motivations
01:15:24 Community outreach and engagement ideas
01:21:17 Encouragement and church resources Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
Transcribed
15 APR 2026 · Something is amiss within the house of God, where those seeking truth and healing often encounter control and silence instead of spiritual guidance from those entrusted to shepherd them. This situation has led many to deconstruct their faith, moving away from not just the building, but from christianity altogether. Shepherd's Heart acts as a lifeline for those who have been hurt, expressing a deep love for the church community while acknowledging these significant issues. If you or someone you know has been impacted in a negative way by those who claim the name of Jesus, this show is for you. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shepherd-s-heart--4100466/support.
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Shepherd's Heart is a podcast for Christ-followers who refuse to look the other way. Hosted by Stewart and Alycia White, Shepherd's Heart tackles the hard conversations the modern church often...
show more
Shepherd's Heart is a podcast for Christ-followers who refuse to look the other way.
Hosted by Stewart and Alycia White, Shepherd's Heart tackles the hard conversations the modern church often avoids — church hurt and recovery, spiritual abuse, toxic leadership, pastor burnout, faith deconstruction, and the Christ-centered discernment every believer needs to navigate it all.
This isn't cynicism. This isn't an exit ramp from faith. Stewart and Alycia speak from deep love for the Bride of Christ and decades of ministry experience as worship leaders, Bible teachers, and Christ-followers who've walked through their own seasons of disillusionment and renewal. Every episode points back to Scripture, back to Jesus, and back to the heart of the Good Shepherd who leaves the 99 for the one.
If you've been wounded by the church but still love the Church, this podcast is for you.
New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss a conversation.
show less
Hosted by Stewart and Alycia White, Shepherd's Heart tackles the hard conversations the modern church often avoids — church hurt and recovery, spiritual abuse, toxic leadership, pastor burnout, faith deconstruction, and the Christ-centered discernment every believer needs to navigate it all.
This isn't cynicism. This isn't an exit ramp from faith. Stewart and Alycia speak from deep love for the Bride of Christ and decades of ministry experience as worship leaders, Bible teachers, and Christ-followers who've walked through their own seasons of disillusionment and renewal. Every episode points back to Scripture, back to Jesus, and back to the heart of the Good Shepherd who leaves the 99 for the one.
If you've been wounded by the church but still love the Church, this podcast is for you.
New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss a conversation.
Information
| Author | Sophos Media Productions |
| Organization | Sophos Media Productions LLC |
| Categories | Christianity , Parenting , Religion & Spirituality |
| Website | - |
| info@shepherdsheartministries.org |
Copyright 2026 - Spreaker Inc. an iHeartMedia Company
