Blending The Two Worlds Of Being A Corporate America Executive & The Music Business Feat. Kim Manuel-Dickens

In this episode Durell is joined by Kim- Manuel Dickens who is a corporate executive as well as a music business consultant. Kim and Durell begin the episode discussing how they met and got connected on the Clubhouse App. Durell speaks about how he really appreciates Kim because of the similar mindset and thought processes they both have when working with indie creatives. Kim shares about her first introduction to music at the age of 5. She shares that it was inevitable for her to get involved in music. She began to play instruments and she became a classically trained pianist. During her later years her involvement in music evolved her to play in school bands, spend some time as a music director, playing in various music ensembles which she thought would’ve led to a career as a music producer. Kim shares that her parents wanted her to get a real job and not be a struggling artist so it wasn’t even up for question if she would go to college. She didn’t object to going to college and pursuing a degree because she also knew she had a strong interest in business and entrepreneurship. Kim shares that she earned an undergraduate degree from the University Of Maryland and a Master’s Degree from the Wharton School Of Business. She talks about the fact that she only went to the Wharton School of Business because she was told that black people couldn’t go. Kim shares that her father instilled in her a strong work ethic, and not to let someone tell her that she couldn’t do something that she knew was achievable and attainable.

Durell shares with Kim about how his path in school he initially thought was going to lead him in a different direction being that he thought a career in the hospitality industry was the goal but that he ultimately found his passion which led him to the entertainment industry and a degree from Full Sail University. Durell shares that he has been a freelancer doing his own thing pretty much since he graduated from Full Sail University. He feels that in today’s music ecosystem there’s really not a huge need for people who work with indie creatives to have a major record label background. Having the ability to help indie creatives get to where they want to go while giving them access to knowledge and how to execute is much more valuable than having what they think is the fastest and easier way to achieve success. Kim shares that she’s a big advocate for everyone being very comfortable with what value they add and when she works with her creatives that she doesn’t mind not exploring all desired options but will often ask the question what can an entity whether it be a consultant or label do for them that they can’t do for themselves. She also shares that indie creatives who are savvy and know how to plug and play rather than waiting for one thing are often going to put themselves into a much better situation to succeed.

Durell and Kim talk about the importance of indie creatives having their framework for success. Oftentimes so many artists don’t have their ducks in a row when it comes to setting up their business structure properly. Kim shares that since the music ecosystem which used to be about getting a label deal and the barriers to entry being really high to now it being extremely low, the importance for indie creatives to have a strong team is so important. Kim talks about some of the inquiries she receives when being approached by indie creatives and the reason why she charges her fee because she says that so many of them are simply taught that someone should work with them for free and eventually they will pay. Kim has to often tell them that’s just not how it works. Kim talks about how she has in the past helped to pay for certain things for her creatives that she works with because she has a very lucrative career in corporate America but that it’s definitely not an everyday thing. She shares that creatives who want help need to be able to properly compensate those in which they seek professional assistance from.

Kim and Durell discuss that so many creatives chase the industry looking for approval but fail to understand that they don’t need the music industry to be successful in the music business as long as they understand the business of music. Major record labels really are only signing influencers that have the numbers to prove their value. Kim shares that it’s sad when you merge artistry with the hopes and dreams of creatives with real talent but elevate those who don’t due to simple numbers. Kim also says that it’s really simple for her to think from the corporate mindset of R.O.I.coming from the label perspective. She always encourages her clients to think of themselves as a product. Kim says that even though some indie creatives are screaming they want to be independent but they really actually need record labels because they aren’t doing the things they need to do. Kim and Durell both believe that when you are building your audience as an creative it comes down to a value exchange.

Durell talks with Kim about being on the board of a non-profit organization called the 3 Arts Foundation. Kim is very passionate about this organization because they are heavy advocates of female artists, artists of color, and artists with disabilities. She shares that every year the organization gives 10 artists $30,000 to fund their careers. She encourages indie creatives to look for the local, city, and non-profit organizations that are often working to help indie creatives fund and get assistance with their careers. Kim and Durell talk about how the pandemic really affected the livelihood of so many creatives and industry pros who work in the live production aspect of the industry.

Kim and Durell talk about an artist showcase that she often sponsors called the “Next Showcase”. Durell shares that one of the acts that he manages, Xavier Keyz, has performed and participated in that event. Kim said she really appreciates this event because it’s a forum and platform that doesn’t bash artists but rather uplift them to learn, get better and keep them encouraged and mentally in the game to keep going. Kim and Durell discuss that there are certain ways that the industry that you pay people in the industry: money, barter, relationship, and sex. Kim shares that she will never be an advocate for using sex to make a career in the industry for women. She works with her female clients to make sure they understand how to build value and come from a place of strength where they can use their ability to barter if they don’t have money to pay for something.

Kim shares that although she has over 20 years of corporate business experience, she technically has only been actively working in the business side of music for 7 years. Durell shares that in today’s music ecosystem having transferable skills that were honed in other industries shouldn’t be undervalued and it definitely can make a difference for those who are entering the music space much later. Durell shares the reason why he loves being in the entertainment industry because it’s a t-shirt and jeans business. Durell shares that Kim, having so much valuable experience in corporate America, is extremely powerful because of her ability to show creatives how to market, promote, and become experienced in entrepreneurship.

Durell and Kim end the episode talking about how so many creatives haven’t been taught the importance for creatives to learn how to build their community deep rather than building wide. Durell and Kim discuss creatives who don’t understand brand positioning, fan persona and those important elements that help to build a core audience, Durell shares why he isn’t an advocate for just running ads on social media before doing the work that’s required to put a system in place. Kim agrees, sharing that she only would advocate for ads for indie creatives to gather market research.

Durell and Kim discuss her work she’s done in corporate America lending her expertise to several fortune 100 brands helping them grow organically across several different industries as well as bigger brands like GE, McDonalds, and Johnson & Johnson. Durell asks Kim what’s the biggest difference in working with the smaller brands versus the bigger more established brands. Kim shares that the biggest difference is scale. The way the operational prowess is with big brands and the way the company machine is designed to basically run itself. She shares that when she works with smaller companies she enjoys it much more because of the ability to shift and disrupt across several different spaces. She loves to work with both for different reasons. The ability Kim has to understand business strategy, corporate strategy and strategic marketing allowed her to work in several different spaces. She has been able to get on the fast track in music as a consultant because of her great work.

For more information on Kim please visit her Instagram,

@kimkdickens